Well the political world has changed - the two main parties have become detached from their roots and we need an electoral system that is more aligned with genuine democratic representation.
There is something very uplifting about people voting outside the old framework. The desire to be rid of the established and incumbent parties is very strong. The collapse of the Tories is mirrored by the implosion of SNP in Scotland. The SNP is a much newer party than the Tories, but it had very quickly adopted the fashionable mantras of political class. In some ways Nicola and Co had become the most coherent expression of that nasty prejudice that 'the people' are a nuisance, a barrier to the smooth management of global affairs rather than a sovereign power. Whether people voted outside of the mainstream to be tactical, or they voted on principle thinking that the choice/distinction between Labour and Tory or SNP is meaningless, it is significant that they voted in large numbers for Reform. Even in Scotland they voted for Reform). What is very encouraging is that a part of the population are open to persuasion regardless of what mainstream politicians and msm throws at them. Reform put 'the people' back on the agenda. Given the election shock many politicians are talking about 'listening to the people'. But by this they mean they need to re-educate the public and change the presentation of policy for electoral success - they don't mean the people are the core component of democracy. They seem to have long ago forgotten who the public are and no amount of teary-eyed speeches about 'public trust' are going to change this. As Farage said yesterday politics is about more than what happens in Westminster (or Holyrood). Whatever you think of Farage, he made some excellent points. In Scotland we have another election in less than 2 years time. I do hope that Reform will align itself with others to bring about a change in the electoral system and to defend freedom of speech. In Scotland there is already an appetite to collaborate against Hate Crime Act and for Free Speech - why not on electoral reform too? It is true that smaller groups like Alba, The Scottish Family Party (and the Party of Women - see Radical cartoons post below) are often excluded from political platforms. Its really important to remember that Reform supporters had to campaign very hard to be heard. If we work together to make space for public discussion and to create new platforms we can all benefit from Reform's success. Even now whenever there is an opportunity to demonise and marginalise Reform - it will be seized upon, democrats should have their back.
What we are seeing is the beginning of the end of top down government. The acceleration started with covid, under which blanket the WEF were minded to launch the Great Reset. It exemplified the pinnacle of top down - a handful of elites coercing the entire western world. Imposing their vision of utopia via 1984, or Brave New World means. But like all good communists they disregarded that the people were actual human beings. There followed such a litany and stream of nonsenses delivered by ridiculous governments and insane quangos, all pretty well unelected, the people began to wake up. They woke up to the scandals, corruptions, cover ups (see covid vaccines). All but the woke as it happens. The irony. The engine of the awakening is of course the internet. Cometh the hour cometh Nigel Farage (and yes, many others, but he had a platform). He saw this coming (same as Russia). Had Reform won many seats the unfairness would not have been so stark. It was meant. So PR is now on the cards and the first step towards the eventual goal which is power to the people (sorry that sounds such an awful cliche). There will be feet trodden on and tears before bedtime, but it will happen, because we will make it happen. As a p.s. the more people who can make the rally on 27th, the better.
Totally on your side Frank bring on proportional representation.I voted Reform and the lib dems getting more seats with less votes than Reform rankles also the Labour got a massive seating for only 33% of a very small turnout bring on proportional representation and a legal requirement to vote.
To all free thinkers that look very in the real world, far away from Brussels, London media elite circles and the anti-intellectual world of "academia" and gravy train "experts" understand this. The most significant change in UK politics is the complete disconnection of the majority of people from "politics". The most significant change is the low turnout at elections, historically the lowest. There is absolutely no point in voting. Facts. 17.4 million people voted for Brexit, not delivered, 4 million voted reform, got 5 seats which will make absolutely no difference. Dare to raise any questions about borders, undocumented males being dumped in your area then get labelled racist, fascist, police will come to your door, lose your job, get cancelled, informally, of course etc etc. The rational choice for free thinkers today is to educate your children and grandchildren in private, immerse them in the judaeo- Christian culture and texts, open their minds to critical thinking and a freedom of conscience. Alternatively, waste your time in Brussels, the house of lords or any other moribund chamber and whinge when you get cancelled. Freedom of thought lives on in new ways. Social media, like all other platforms are false, fake, policed and just another form of nihilistic virtue signalling. Just facts, all can feel free to debate this, once you all put the champagne down? Respectfully
This is interesting as a political essay urging action; I do not think it is truly intended as analysis, though. No EU state has a FTTP system; in most cases this is a function of either World War 2 or the end of The Cold War. The political effort and consensus required to actually move from one system to another for sovereign elections would be very great. The Labour and Tory parties could only lose from voting reform. The third largest party now, the Liberal Democrats, have ironically benefitted from the FTTP system this time around and will under no circumstances campaign alongside The Reform Party on anything. The SNP, the fourth largest party, has benefitted disproportionately from FTTP in the past and it would not be credible for it to take an aggressive line on the matter now; they are also primarily concerned now with securing their place as Scotland's devolved government; they will not be spending time worrying about the UK parliament. The Greens will not stand on a platform with Reform. Indeed, Reform's great success seems more likely to do great harm to campaigns for PR by liberal organisations such as The Electoral Reform Society, who will not wish to be perceived as supporting The Reform Party in any way. Importantly, although quite a lot of people in the UK support the principle of voting reform, they mainly do not give it high importance next to the main reasons they vote as they do (economy, jobs, health, education). In addition, most people who support voting reform are broadly liberal and their dislike of Reform will trump their dislike of FTTP. Reform simply cannot achieve electoral reform, so that is not a route to power. Instead, the demand for PR appears useful only as a way of making Reform supporters, and potential supporters, feel that they are disenfranchised under the current system; and that sense of disenfranchisement might fuel growth and greater parliamentary success under the current FTTP system. However, assuming Reform is able to maintain discipline (it is, after all, privately owned by Farage and its make-up is unusually explosive), its success will, I think, be based upon its ability to take control of, or take many members and MPs from, a Tory Party in ideological disarray. The window for that is quite short; I think just the one parliament, I think that is not unachievable but you can bet on one thing: If Reform takes the place of, or control of, the Tories then they will benefit from the FTTP system in the way the Tories do at present and many Reform supporters will suddenly become a lot less interested in PR.
The time for Proportional Representation has arrived. Some of us might want to look at our shoes as we say this. There has always been a vested interest, and a Catch 22 with the Government elected under the old system been charged with abolishing the system from which it has benefited - in 1983 The Liberal/SDP Alliance won 13 Seats with 26.4% of the vote. More plausibly there was always the argument the our first past the post system had the benefit of simplicity and provided stable government, comparing favourably to the splits and fragile coalitions of the continentals. This was plausible when our two major parties had strong established social roots, based on social class. Furthermore it was always argued that the major parties were also coalitions containing a wide diversity of views and political perspectives. No one can now argue that the UK system is stable, or 'strong and stable' as was the mantra of the former Conservative leader Theresa May, with four Conservative leaders and counting, in five years,
Respectfully, I think you're wrong in your last point. Our 16 Party of Women candidates (and their helpers, like me) have now had the experience of campaigning in constituencies where Reform also stood. Our party is also brand new, registered in February this year. From our observation, Reform have very quickly been absorbed into the centrist political Blob. Their candidates were platformed on hustings while ours were banned. One excuse given was, they are considered a "national party" with 609 candidates. Middle-class trendy audiences politely clapped Reform candidates even if they didn't agree with them, while we were abused as fascists, and closely shadowed by security guards and police, merely for sitting in the audience of hustings our candidate had been banned from. Local media interviewed them and included them, while ignoring us, even if we were in a 6-party race, not a 10+ party race. (See my substack, "a tale of two newspapers"). Also witness the chumminess at the Counts. Farage is literally part of the political furniture. He has carefully cultivated the Rebel image which his followers identify with. Reform have been quietly slid, by the media, in a short 4 weeks, leftwards along the "fascism spectrum" to the centre, while REAL rebel parties - like Party of Women - are demonized in their place.
Farage is an ex Tory who finds himself in the political wilderness partly by choice but also because the Tory party under Cameron was the Labour Party, all the gender recognition ideas were developed under their watch .
The point is a ‘referendum’ on women’s rights is a way forward and a movement towards ‘resistance’ candidates to share 5 basic demands would be better than lots of smaller parties vying for the same votes .
I don't think you can expect a place on a political platform by just giving yourselves a party badge. The 7-party political debates on tv were very cumbersome and also curious in that they made minority opinions look like majority opinions as 5 or 6 of the parties represented parroted the same rubbish (e.g. on "climate change"). You have to do some work yourselves first - e.g. I don't ever remember getting a Party of Women leaflet through my door - why not?
We only stood 16 candidates and the Royal Mail delivery was extremely patchy - I didn't get one either and I live in one of the 16 constituencies. The Reform candidate in my constituency didn't receive his own party's leaflet. It's happened across the board. Small party candidates can only raise funds for 1 leaflet to be delivered by the posties, and if they don't deliver it, it's just tough.
The Royal Mail deliver them free (supposed to) to every household in the constituency, average of 60, 000. From my 40 years experience in politics it takes a team of 20 people a week to deliver a constituency, working every day, evening and weekend. The vast majority of small party candidates don't have teams of people.( who also have to give up their time, lose time at work, travel etc -costs mount up). Like the 5th Reform candidate, it was just him & his parents. Think again.
When I lived in Edinburgh during lockdown the Sturgeon’s SNP were unassailable, no one could criticise them. Here we are just a few years later and they are toast.UKIP and Reform were seen as a strange ‘English’ problem but last week Reform polled 165k votes to Labours 845k .
They are the story of this election not Labours hollow victory, but the fact that our First past the post election system is broken but that millions of people ( I would argue largely working class voters) are willing to vote for a party that despite its problems are clearly not part of the establishment.
Not sure Farage has the political brains to see that referendums are a way to expose Labours shoddy belief in democracy and to rally support to a genuine game changer in British politics.
Reform need to open up and become a more Democratic Party allowing members to have a say in their policies .
Well the political world has changed - the two main parties have become detached from their roots and we need an electoral system that is more aligned with genuine democratic representation.
There is something very uplifting about people voting outside the old framework. The desire to be rid of the established and incumbent parties is very strong. The collapse of the Tories is mirrored by the implosion of SNP in Scotland. The SNP is a much newer party than the Tories, but it had very quickly adopted the fashionable mantras of political class. In some ways Nicola and Co had become the most coherent expression of that nasty prejudice that 'the people' are a nuisance, a barrier to the smooth management of global affairs rather than a sovereign power. Whether people voted outside of the mainstream to be tactical, or they voted on principle thinking that the choice/distinction between Labour and Tory or SNP is meaningless, it is significant that they voted in large numbers for Reform. Even in Scotland they voted for Reform). What is very encouraging is that a part of the population are open to persuasion regardless of what mainstream politicians and msm throws at them. Reform put 'the people' back on the agenda. Given the election shock many politicians are talking about 'listening to the people'. But by this they mean they need to re-educate the public and change the presentation of policy for electoral success - they don't mean the people are the core component of democracy. They seem to have long ago forgotten who the public are and no amount of teary-eyed speeches about 'public trust' are going to change this. As Farage said yesterday politics is about more than what happens in Westminster (or Holyrood). Whatever you think of Farage, he made some excellent points. In Scotland we have another election in less than 2 years time. I do hope that Reform will align itself with others to bring about a change in the electoral system and to defend freedom of speech. In Scotland there is already an appetite to collaborate against Hate Crime Act and for Free Speech - why not on electoral reform too? It is true that smaller groups like Alba, The Scottish Family Party (and the Party of Women - see Radical cartoons post below) are often excluded from political platforms. Its really important to remember that Reform supporters had to campaign very hard to be heard. If we work together to make space for public discussion and to create new platforms we can all benefit from Reform's success. Even now whenever there is an opportunity to demonise and marginalise Reform - it will be seized upon, democrats should have their back.
Totally agree with you Penny
What we are seeing is the beginning of the end of top down government. The acceleration started with covid, under which blanket the WEF were minded to launch the Great Reset. It exemplified the pinnacle of top down - a handful of elites coercing the entire western world. Imposing their vision of utopia via 1984, or Brave New World means. But like all good communists they disregarded that the people were actual human beings. There followed such a litany and stream of nonsenses delivered by ridiculous governments and insane quangos, all pretty well unelected, the people began to wake up. They woke up to the scandals, corruptions, cover ups (see covid vaccines). All but the woke as it happens. The irony. The engine of the awakening is of course the internet. Cometh the hour cometh Nigel Farage (and yes, many others, but he had a platform). He saw this coming (same as Russia). Had Reform won many seats the unfairness would not have been so stark. It was meant. So PR is now on the cards and the first step towards the eventual goal which is power to the people (sorry that sounds such an awful cliche). There will be feet trodden on and tears before bedtime, but it will happen, because we will make it happen. As a p.s. the more people who can make the rally on 27th, the better.
Totally on your side Frank bring on proportional representation.I voted Reform and the lib dems getting more seats with less votes than Reform rankles also the Labour got a massive seating for only 33% of a very small turnout bring on proportional representation and a legal requirement to vote.
To all free thinkers that look very in the real world, far away from Brussels, London media elite circles and the anti-intellectual world of "academia" and gravy train "experts" understand this. The most significant change in UK politics is the complete disconnection of the majority of people from "politics". The most significant change is the low turnout at elections, historically the lowest. There is absolutely no point in voting. Facts. 17.4 million people voted for Brexit, not delivered, 4 million voted reform, got 5 seats which will make absolutely no difference. Dare to raise any questions about borders, undocumented males being dumped in your area then get labelled racist, fascist, police will come to your door, lose your job, get cancelled, informally, of course etc etc. The rational choice for free thinkers today is to educate your children and grandchildren in private, immerse them in the judaeo- Christian culture and texts, open their minds to critical thinking and a freedom of conscience. Alternatively, waste your time in Brussels, the house of lords or any other moribund chamber and whinge when you get cancelled. Freedom of thought lives on in new ways. Social media, like all other platforms are false, fake, policed and just another form of nihilistic virtue signalling. Just facts, all can feel free to debate this, once you all put the champagne down? Respectfully
This is interesting as a political essay urging action; I do not think it is truly intended as analysis, though. No EU state has a FTTP system; in most cases this is a function of either World War 2 or the end of The Cold War. The political effort and consensus required to actually move from one system to another for sovereign elections would be very great. The Labour and Tory parties could only lose from voting reform. The third largest party now, the Liberal Democrats, have ironically benefitted from the FTTP system this time around and will under no circumstances campaign alongside The Reform Party on anything. The SNP, the fourth largest party, has benefitted disproportionately from FTTP in the past and it would not be credible for it to take an aggressive line on the matter now; they are also primarily concerned now with securing their place as Scotland's devolved government; they will not be spending time worrying about the UK parliament. The Greens will not stand on a platform with Reform. Indeed, Reform's great success seems more likely to do great harm to campaigns for PR by liberal organisations such as The Electoral Reform Society, who will not wish to be perceived as supporting The Reform Party in any way. Importantly, although quite a lot of people in the UK support the principle of voting reform, they mainly do not give it high importance next to the main reasons they vote as they do (economy, jobs, health, education). In addition, most people who support voting reform are broadly liberal and their dislike of Reform will trump their dislike of FTTP. Reform simply cannot achieve electoral reform, so that is not a route to power. Instead, the demand for PR appears useful only as a way of making Reform supporters, and potential supporters, feel that they are disenfranchised under the current system; and that sense of disenfranchisement might fuel growth and greater parliamentary success under the current FTTP system. However, assuming Reform is able to maintain discipline (it is, after all, privately owned by Farage and its make-up is unusually explosive), its success will, I think, be based upon its ability to take control of, or take many members and MPs from, a Tory Party in ideological disarray. The window for that is quite short; I think just the one parliament, I think that is not unachievable but you can bet on one thing: If Reform takes the place of, or control of, the Tories then they will benefit from the FTTP system in the way the Tories do at present and many Reform supporters will suddenly become a lot less interested in PR.
Agree
The time for Proportional Representation has arrived. Some of us might want to look at our shoes as we say this. There has always been a vested interest, and a Catch 22 with the Government elected under the old system been charged with abolishing the system from which it has benefited - in 1983 The Liberal/SDP Alliance won 13 Seats with 26.4% of the vote. More plausibly there was always the argument the our first past the post system had the benefit of simplicity and provided stable government, comparing favourably to the splits and fragile coalitions of the continentals. This was plausible when our two major parties had strong established social roots, based on social class. Furthermore it was always argued that the major parties were also coalitions containing a wide diversity of views and political perspectives. No one can now argue that the UK system is stable, or 'strong and stable' as was the mantra of the former Conservative leader Theresa May, with four Conservative leaders and counting, in five years,
If only it made a difference!
Respectfully, I think you're wrong in your last point. Our 16 Party of Women candidates (and their helpers, like me) have now had the experience of campaigning in constituencies where Reform also stood. Our party is also brand new, registered in February this year. From our observation, Reform have very quickly been absorbed into the centrist political Blob. Their candidates were platformed on hustings while ours were banned. One excuse given was, they are considered a "national party" with 609 candidates. Middle-class trendy audiences politely clapped Reform candidates even if they didn't agree with them, while we were abused as fascists, and closely shadowed by security guards and police, merely for sitting in the audience of hustings our candidate had been banned from. Local media interviewed them and included them, while ignoring us, even if we were in a 6-party race, not a 10+ party race. (See my substack, "a tale of two newspapers"). Also witness the chumminess at the Counts. Farage is literally part of the political furniture. He has carefully cultivated the Rebel image which his followers identify with. Reform have been quietly slid, by the media, in a short 4 weeks, leftwards along the "fascism spectrum" to the centre, while REAL rebel parties - like Party of Women - are demonized in their place.
Farage is an ex Tory who finds himself in the political wilderness partly by choice but also because the Tory party under Cameron was the Labour Party, all the gender recognition ideas were developed under their watch .
The point is a ‘referendum’ on women’s rights is a way forward and a movement towards ‘resistance’ candidates to share 5 basic demands would be better than lots of smaller parties vying for the same votes .
I don't think you can expect a place on a political platform by just giving yourselves a party badge. The 7-party political debates on tv were very cumbersome and also curious in that they made minority opinions look like majority opinions as 5 or 6 of the parties represented parroted the same rubbish (e.g. on "climate change"). You have to do some work yourselves first - e.g. I don't ever remember getting a Party of Women leaflet through my door - why not?
We only stood 16 candidates and the Royal Mail delivery was extremely patchy - I didn't get one either and I live in one of the 16 constituencies. The Reform candidate in my constituency didn't receive his own party's leaflet. It's happened across the board. Small party candidates can only raise funds for 1 leaflet to be delivered by the posties, and if they don't deliver it, it's just tough.
One thought is that it's a lot cheaper to distribute your leaflets yourselves and also that way you know they get through.
The Royal Mail deliver them free (supposed to) to every household in the constituency, average of 60, 000. From my 40 years experience in politics it takes a team of 20 people a week to deliver a constituency, working every day, evening and weekend. The vast majority of small party candidates don't have teams of people.( who also have to give up their time, lose time at work, travel etc -costs mount up). Like the 5th Reform candidate, it was just him & his parents. Think again.
When I lived in Edinburgh during lockdown the Sturgeon’s SNP were unassailable, no one could criticise them. Here we are just a few years later and they are toast.UKIP and Reform were seen as a strange ‘English’ problem but last week Reform polled 165k votes to Labours 845k .
They are the story of this election not Labours hollow victory, but the fact that our First past the post election system is broken but that millions of people ( I would argue largely working class voters) are willing to vote for a party that despite its problems are clearly not part of the establishment.
Not sure Farage has the political brains to see that referendums are a way to expose Labours shoddy belief in democracy and to rally support to a genuine game changer in British politics.
Reform need to open up and become a more Democratic Party allowing members to have a say in their policies .
They will do. They have time now.